FAQ

Subject: Re: installing piston Help…

Read more: Installing a Piston

Larry Evans This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. posted

Nearly 15 years ago my brother and I repaired some damage to the cylinder bore of a 3 hp. Fairbanks Morse Z. Before we got the engine the wrist pin had worked loose and gouged two sets of deep parallel grooves the full length of the stroke. We didn't want to go to the expense of boring and sleeving so decided to try the wonder product called J-B Weld that we had heard about. We cleaned the area and ground the grooves out a little deeper for better adhesion and applied the epoxy per the instructions. After it set up we carefully sanded down the high spots and then honed the cylinder. All of a sudden the engine now had some decent compression.

The engine has now run many hundreds of hours since the repair. Even though the engine has maintained it's high compression we decided to pull the piston and check on the condition of the J-B WELD. Much to our delight the four grooves still were filled with the material and no high or low spots could be felt. I tried to take some pictures but just couldn't get my camera inside the cylinder.

Regards,
Larry Evans
Arcadia, Southern California, USA
mailto:This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
http://www.oldengine.org/members/levans/

John Culp This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. responded

I patched a rough spot in the side of my IHC M's hopper, filling it a bit above flush intending to grind it smooth. Big mistake! Cast iron grinds off with an abrasive wheel more easily than J-B Weld. Took a lot of careful work to get it smooth.

I had to remove a previously botched J-B Weld repair from the bore of my Coldwell Cub. Got it out by heating it intensely with a propane torch, but I had to get it so hot I was worried about the bore getting overstressed and cracking. It finally turned chalky and could be scraped out. I replaced it with fresh J-B Weld and smoothed it perfectly flush with the bore by pushing a lightly oiled ring through the bore with the piston crown while the J-B Weld was still soft.

John

Joe Betz This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. unexpectedly said

I have purchased engines -
later to find that many repairs are done with J-B Weld.
It IS pretty remarkable stuff, and has it's place.

However - I am very much against making repairs with the quick
and E-Z, J-B Weld method.
Unless YOU are the only one to ever own that engine.

My only concern is this - - -
When you sell that engine - -
Will you tell the purchaser what he's getting ???

Just my opinion.


Joe Betz said that.
Library, PA
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Joe's question led to quite an argument on the list, which I think Larry Evans summed up best as...

Joe......

At first I was going to let this pass without comment but I began to wonder why you would take such a stand. I respect the fact that you stated it is just your opinion but as I thought about it I had to assume that what you did not like was the fact that J-B WELD is a product of relatively new technology and not available when the engine was built. The fact is that J-B WELD has been around at least 30 years and I'm sure that there are members of this list that own and show engines that were in use even more recently than that. If my assumption is correct then I guess that it would also be inappropriate to lubricate the old engines with modern lubricants, paint them with modern paints, use a little carefully trimmed Teflon tape for fuel and water line joints, synthetic rubber hose for fuel lines, etc., etc.

To carry the concept a little further I guess I should not use any of my electric hand or shop tools when working on my engines since many of the farms of that era had no electricity. I suppose I'd better get rid of the fluorescent lights in my shop also. I'm sure the list could go on and on but this is enough for starters.

I'll probably also have to forget all information that I've picked up on this and all other Internet sources since computers, digital imaging, web sites, etc. are relatively new. The post office and telephone will have to suffice for communication but licking the new stamps doesn't make them stick any better and I can't find the crank or dial on my phone.

Also I don't recall stating that this was a quick and easy repair. It probably would have been quicker and I am sure it would have been much easier to take the block to a good machine shop and ask them to bore and sleeve it back to the original diameter. I doubt that I could have gotten away with just boring the cylinder and then having the piston enlarged with metal spraying as that technique probably was not available in the early 1920's. In the original post I didn't bother to mention that it took several hours of very careful work to contour the newly applied J-B WELD back to the exact shape of the cylinder without damaging the original cast iron.

As far as telling a potential purchaser about the repair, of course I would and offer to pull the piston and let them inspect it. I have nothing to hide and I am sure they would be delighted that the cylinder bore was one part of the engine that they would not have to worry about.

Regards,

Larry Evans
Arcadia, Southern California, USA
mailto:This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
http://www.oldengine.org/members/levans/

Read more: JB Weld and Hidden Repair

Subject: tag cleaning and restoringDate: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 08:36:54 -0500From: "Jerry Bernard" Well maybe some of you know this, and some don't. i have saw many engines at shows with the brass tags polished with no paint.  well this is an old Fan-collectors  tip. first, paint the tag over with some gloss or flat black paint. let it sit for a day or two.  then take fine sandpaper and go over the whole tag with even pressure, this should reveal shiny brass letters and a black background. after you've wipedthe tag off from the sanding dust, clear coat it. and you have a good lookin' tag                                      Jay B. [Ed: Lemon juice and Brasso work well too]…

Read more: Keeping Your Copper & Brass Clean

Subj: JB Weld question
Date: 96-09-09 22:52:11 EDT
From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. (Don Bowen)

I was trying to get the IHC LA running for an upcoming show.  I finally
managed to get it to start but is was not running well at all.  I noticed
that the fuel line was loose and it would not tighten.  After taking it
apart I found the threads on the mixer body stripped out and several layers
of gasket compound and silicon.

The question is, what can I use to fix this?  Do they make Helicoils for
fuel lines or will JB Weld do the Job?  If JB Weld, is there a release agent
so I could form the threads with the fuel line fitting?  Any and all
comments and suggestions welcome.

    Don Bowen                      This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
    Valley Center, CA              Senior Software Engineer
    Bee Point acres                Smith Automation Systems, Inc
    USDA Zone 9, Sunset Zone 21    This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
---------------------------
Subj: Re: JB Weld question
Date: 96-09-10 00:10:55 EDT
From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. (Rob Skinner)

Permatex makes some goop called "Form-A-Thread."  It's a two part epoxy with
a release agent, just like you suggested.  I've used it on some aluminum
castings that were about 10-32.  It's performance was marginal, but under
other applications it might have worked better.  I used it on an assembly
that was taken apart and reassembled frequently, and I couldn't keep the
gorillas away from it (how do you think it got stripped in the first
place?).  If you take care when tightening, and don't need to keep taking it
apart, it might work ok. 

Rob Skinner  This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
-------------------------------
Subj: Re: JB Weld question
Date: 96-09-10 00:13:01 EDT
From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. (Bob Learned)

Hi Don,

I would not recommend JB weld for this. The best way to fix this problem is
to put in an oversize threaded plug and drill and tap it for the fitting.
Any machine shop can do this or you can do it yourself if you have access to
a milling machine. Sometimes if you have enough meat, you can use a standard
pipe reducer for the plug and then you don't have to drill and tap it.

Bob Learned
------------------------
Subj: Re: JB Weld question
Date: 96-09-10 09:43:52 EDT
From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. (Charles R. Bryant)

Don,

Ted Brookover uses a DEVON or DEVLON 80 on magneto bases. I don't know the source of it though.
----------------------------------------
Subj: RE: JB Weld question
Date: 96-09-10 10:50:00 EDT
From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. (Koth, Tim)

Thats DEVCON. they have about 30 different styles and grades of epoxies,
some with atomized metal powders in them to strengthen them. Some of
them are so hard after curing they can be drilled and tapped themselves.
--------------------------------------------
Subj: RE: JB Weld question
Date: 96-09-10 16:04:18 EDT
From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. (Koth, Tim)

I've heard  some of the DEVCON products can withstand temperatures of
500 degrees F, but I don't know where to get that stuff. Some of the
plain-jane DEVCON epoxies can be had at KMART. WR GRAINGER lists several
styles of DEVCON products and one thats filled with aluminum powder is
rated to 350 F. They also carry the stainless steel putty as well but it
doesn't have a temp rating in the catalog. Graingers has outlets in most
major areas and if you tell me where you are I could check my catalog
and give you their local number.
------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: JB Weld question
Date: 96-09-10 18:56:57 EDT
From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

There are many things that can be used as a release agent for epoxies....

Hi,Don and others,

Regarding expoxies, application and possible release agents.  Devcon, of
Danvers, MA, makes many products (or, did).  One, Plastic Steel, I used to
build up the splines on the drive axle shafts of a Fiat 500 where they fit
into cast iron splined hubs.  The hubs, as manufactured, were not shielded
from the salt of Michigan highways and the cast iron stripped out and the
steel axle shafts were badly worn.  I didn't want to open the transaxle to
replace the axle shafts.  At $5 per cast iron hub (1967 $) I bought two and a
tube of Devcon Plastic Steel.  I coated the inside of the new splined hubs
with a thin coat of Johnsons Paste wax, cleaned the shaft splines with carbon
tet (yes, you could get it back then), mixed the epoxy and assembled the hub
onto the shaft with all the epoxy I could get in the joint.  Then, overnight
cure with an electric hot pad for each glue job (it was Winter), separate
with a big gear puller, grease with chassis grease, fit a piece of bicycle
inner tube stuffed with grease and over the joint and two hose clamps to
fasten it to the hub and shaft and the job was done.  I drove the little
machine 10,000 miles successfully before selling it.  The Devcon held. 

Regarding Devcon, at one time I received a list of their products with the
specifications such as temperature, cure time, tensile strength, hardness,
and even coefficient of friction as one of their products was intended to
serve as a bearing surface.  Maybe one could "Devcon" a connecting rod or
main instead of using Babbitt metal.  It would be a little safer to work and
show engines don't have extended heavy bearing loads.  Maybe it would work
well although I realize it would be using a modern material on an antique
engine. 
Ron
------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: JB Weld question
Date: 96-09-10 21:37:57 EDT
From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. (Grant Fish)
Sender: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Don,

JB Weld will probably work if you NEVER plan to take this thing apart again.  I
think what you are looking for is Loc-Tite Form-a-Thread.  It is supposed to
repair stripped threads strong enough to accept the bolts original torque.  It
does come with a release agent that is applied to the bolt to allow it to be
removed.  I've used it a couple of times and it seems to work, although I was
very conservative when tightening the bolt.

Are these tapered pipe threads?  If so, why not just drill and tap for the next
larger pipe size and use a reducer bushing.  If you are concerned about original
appearance, apply some permanent (red) Loc-Tite to the bushing, tighten the
busing in the casting, then grind it off flush with the castings surface.
Since the threads are tapered, you will have to re-tap the bushing after
grinding it off or you will never be able to start the fitting into the bushing.
Grant Fish
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Columbus (well, really, West Jefferson) Ohio
Power equipment and generator mechanic and
antique tractor collector wannabe
--------------------------------------------------
Subj: No Subject
Date: 96-09-19 00:54:45 EDT
From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. (Charles R. Bryant)

John,

What DEVCON No. do you use instead of JB Weld. Someone
told me DEVCON 80 but that turned out to be a rubber
base.
Charlie
----------------------------------------------------
Subj: No Subject
Date: 96-09-19 09:03:36 EDT
From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. (John Bailey)

On Wed, 18 Sep 1996 23:46:49 -0500 (CDT) Charles R. Bryant said:
|John,
|
|What DEVCON No. do you use instead of JB Weld. Someone
|told me DEVCON 80 but that turned out to be a rubber
|base.
|
|Charlie

Charlie:  I'll check tonight and post the number tomorrow.

John
------------------------------------------------------------
Subj: DEVCON
Date: 96-09-24 09:21:17 EDT
From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. (Koth, Tim)

   After all the discussion last week about DEVCON and glues, I just
found that they have a WWW site. It is... surprisingly... WWW.DEVCON.COM
     In a sales add I'm looking at, they even have an epoxy that is
titanium filled, that can be machined as if it were a cast metal part.
Pretty interesting stuff.....
------------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: DEVCON
Date: 96-09-24 20:26:25 EDT
From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. (Rob Skinner)

At 10:03 AM 9/24/96 EST, you wrote:
|     Anyway - would that work well for pitted cylinders and valve seats on
|     these old slow low temp engines?  Maybe better than JB?

Devcon Titanium Putty
*rebuilds work/gouged shafts
*repairs scored hydraulic rams
*refits worn keyways
*rebuilds wear ring surfaces
*reseats oversized bearing housings
One pound:  $50 from MSC

Rob Skinner  This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: 6 HP Fairbanks-Morse update.
Date: 96-10-15 18:56:36 EDT
From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. (Dave Rotigel)

|On Mon, 14 Oct 1996 19:30:29 -0700 Orrin Iseminger said:
||
||Where did you get the Devcon?  I've been looking but can't seem to find it
||out here in the boondocks.
||
||Orrin

John

Devcon has a HP at http://media4.hypernet.com/~DEVCON/devcon.html
        Dave
PS, ABC, VFD! :-)

David E. Rotigel and Sons


-----------------------------------
----------------------------------------
Subj: Joe Kelley's Super Glue
Date: 96-09-17 16:13:26 EDT
From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. (Charles R. Bryant)

While visiting Joe Kelley this summer we broke a piece off
of a rocker arm bracket while loading engines. Joe said ,"no
problem, I have some super glue which will fix that" and he
proceeded to make the repair. He said this stuff is so good
that I even glued the broken governor bracket on my 1 1/2 MD.
Boy I said I've got to get some of this stuff. It was Lock-Tite
635. This is an industrial glue so I had to order it through
my friends hardware store. When I went to Bearing Headquarters
yesterday to pick it up the guy at the counter brought out the
8 ounce plastic bottle. I said I'll pay cash and the guy said that
will be $104 plus tax. I must of turned pale because he asked me
if he should call 911. I said no but don't you have this in smaller
quantities. He said no but I do have an alternate no. in the 1.5 ounce
size which is about the same. So I took that. It was Lock-Tite 680.
What amazes me is I can't imaging Joe Kelley paying $104 for a bottle
of glue (maybe he needed it on a Galloway engine he recently sold).

Charlie

Read more: JB Weld and Other Expoxies

Those of us who drive equipment with our engines, and those of us with fly ball governed engines will need a source of Leather Belting.…

Read more: Leather Belting